Introduction (00:00.00)
You are listening to From Pain To Possibility with Susi Hately. You’ll hear Susi’s best ideas on how to reduce or even eradicate your pain, and learn how to listen to your body when it whispers so you don’t have to hear it scream. And now here’s your host, Susi Hately.
Susi (00:23.19)
Susi: All right, welcome. Welcome back! I am so glad you’re here because I have another guest on today. And this time it’s not a grad; it’s someone who has been in the certification program since June. And the important part about this is it’s now—at the time of recording—August! So let me be clear that we are like two months into this. And I think it’s really important—and I sometimes do this with the podcast—because I think it’s really important to both share stories of people who are in the process, as well as teachers who have finished the process. Because it’s—well, it’s great to hear the stories of before and after, but the during! And maybe, Arzina, we’re going to actually do this again later, perhaps. But right now, I want to introduce you to Arzina Mirji. And she took the intensive in April, and she immediately came into the cert program, and we started in the last week of May. And I want her to share what brought her here and what inspired her to take the intensive. And then we’re going to have a little bit of back-and-forth about her progress so far, which is—it’s not uncommon. It’s just super fun for me as a trainer to see the progress that she’s making. And then we’ll fill out the rest of the episode as we go. So, I’m really looking forward to sharing this chat with you, and welcome, Arzina. I’m so glad you’re here.
Arzina: Thank you. You’re very, very welcome. So, how I got here: I have been using your book, Anatomy and Asanas, since I did my yoga teacher training 14–15 years ago now. And there are little excerpts that I use from the book in my centering about the spine and how it’s a central place to begin movement, because it’s connected to every piece of the body. And so, I came across you on Facebook, I think a few months ago, and I thought, “Hey, that’s Susi Hately. I have her book!” And you had The Power of the Pits, or The Power in the Pits. And I thought, “Huh, let me look into it.” And so I purchased the program—it was a very low-cost program—and I did it. And I have had wrist pain for, I think, maybe 20 years. And I’ve had X-rays done, and the X-ray reports are really horrible. They talk about severe degeneration and whatnot. Anyway, I did The Power in the Pits. I did a little bit of manipulation of the muscle on the inside of the arm, and I was surprised to see how tender and how sore that muscle was. By the end of the manipulation, that wrist pain disappeared. It didn’t stay away, but it disappeared like it had never disappeared before for, I think, several hours. So I did the whole Power in the Pits again, and then I started searching, “What else does Susi Hately have out?” And I came across the intensive, and I thought that was really interesting, but that was really intense. And then you had a group of people who were able to answer our questions to let us know if this was truly for us, which, for me, was very valuable. So I got onto a Zoom call with these people, and I knew I wanted to do this. During the intensive again, we did the spinal strip, which you use, Susi, and my wrist pain magically went away again, and the relief lasted almost 20 hours until I started peeling carrots. So I said, “I have to learn what this is all about in much more detail and then share it with people so I can get people out of pain.” So that’s how I got here.
Susi: So this is really great because it’s classic, actually. Because 95%—like, I would say 100, but I don’t have official stats; I just know from the people who come to my classes—is that the people who come to the intensive are yoga teachers and other health professionals who have pain themselves. And so they start to see the results, and it makes it easier to then teach to their students. So it’s this embodied learning experience. And so you’re learning how to see, and you’re learning how to apply as we go. It’s not just this academic forum, right? And what Arzina has mentioned here that I think is really, really important is she had the pain disappear for a block of time, and then it disappeared again for a block of time, and then it disappeared again for a block of time. And then I remember when you were in the intensive, and you came back with the story of peeling carrots. And that story keeps kind of circling around as we notice the progress you make over and over and over again. Because the piece that becomes so important when we’re talking with clients is it’s not that we’re trying to find them or help them with some magic fix; it’s for them to recognize that pain is a pattern output, and relief is a pattern output. So if we start to retrain up the pattern, then the output will also change, right? Where is your wrist now? Like, how does it feel now? And then how does this correlate to some of the gains you’re having with your clients? Because you’ve helped people reduce pain as clients since you’ve started certification.
Arzina: I have. One particular client that I’ve been working with, I’ve worked with her six times, and she has made so many gains. She is out of pain from her knees, she doesn’t have any more pain in her mid-back—and we haven’t even gotten into the spinal strip. So it’s really—and then she is also learning to see pain as a pattern output, relief as a pattern output, and recognizing as to when it creeps in, what she needs to do to become aware and to act so that the pain stays away longer, which is so fascinating for me to see. Because—and I think this is something that I’ve learned from you, Susi—that once we understand how the body works, and once we learn how we compensate, how we use parts of the body that are not designed to do the work that they’re doing in allowing us to function, we can then reduce the compensations, refine our biomechanics, and tissue changes and the pain reduces and goes away. And because pain is a pattern output, the fact that we have had these compensation patterns for a long time—they’ve become habitual—we default to them. And when we become aware, we stop defaulting to them and we start to engage in the new patterns, and the pain goes away again.
Susi: The awareness piece is important, but people can become aware and then not do anything with the awareness, right? Like, they can become aware and say, “Well, you know, I’m X years old, and this is just what happens when you’re X years old.” I remember someone once saying to me, “Susi, the knee pain is what it is. I mean, I’ve been on the planet for long enough. Like, the knees are going to be the knees.” And so you can have the awareness, but then not actually do anything with the awareness. So where are you at with your wrist now? Like, when you think about where your wrist was before the intensive and where your wrist is now, are you able to peel carrots?
Arzina: I am able to peel carrots. I sometimes wear a brace. I used to wear the brace, wrist brace, all the time. I always had it with me. I have an extra one in the car so that sometimes, when my wrist starts to ache, I can put it on. And it’s literally like me holding my hand, supporting the wrist joint. I don’t wear it anymore. Which means that the relief has lasted much, much longer. It does—the pain does come on with the weather sometimes. When it’s rainy, my arthritis acts up. But overall, I stopped wearing the brace. So, I don’t know how quite to put it. I don’t want to just say that I have no pain more of the time. I also want to say that maybe my wrist is getting better and better.
Susi: So I think this is really key, because there’s two things that are happening simultaneously, I think, here. Where there’s one where—you said earlier in this episode that you actually have X-rays that—you’ve got structural change in your wrist.
Arzina: Yes.
Susi: And your pain is gone more of the time than not. You’re not wearing the brace anymore. The brace is there in case you need it. And you just said that your wrist is getting better and better. So now, traditionally speaking, like in the past—and this is something that a lot of research is pointing to right now, like the change—but in the past, a physician would see that X-ray, and they would say whatever they would say, which would not have been a positive, because the belief back then was, “Well, of course you have pain; you’ve got all this degeneration in your wrist. So this structure is indicating the level of pain that you have.” And you’re actually embodying what newer research is showing, which is: you can have the structural change and actually not only not have pain, but you can actually function way better.
Arzina: No, no.
Susi: And it’s not just a matter of you thinking happy thoughts! Like, you’ve tuned in to this relationship between how your whole body, from your armpit down to your hand—and actually, we’ve discovered a bunch of stuff in your rib cage, too, right?—how that’s all related. So, the awareness that you have, say more about that, like how that has changed and shifted.
Arzina: So I think for me, being in the program and learning all the things that I’m learning about the pain science, and learning, knowing the information that I have on my X-ray report, and knowing—so when I got that report, it was doom and gloom. And I felt like, “Oh my goodness, I have so much degeneration.” And the word “degeneration” is like things falling apart in my brain. Things are falling apart and they can’t hold together anymore, and I’m thinking, “I use my hands for so many things, like all of us do.” And there was no authority within the medical field that would say anything different. So I accepted it. And then I learned from this program that structure does not dictate function. And I experienced the fact that, hm, the pain went away. And I was always being told to strengthen my wrists, and I was thinking, “How do I strengthen them when I’m in so much pain? How do you add load to something that is already sore and in pain?” And I almost felt like they’re—the medical world is misinformed. And here I am now that there is less pain, I can actually strengthen now, and a better function.
Susi: It is true that when pain is present, the common thing that people think they need to do is they think they have weakness, and they think they need to strengthen. And the reality is that when I first started in this whole world, when I graduated from school, that was the mode: get people stronger, get them back to work, get them—that was the MO. And so it’s interesting that that’s still sticking around. So you could have strengthened. Right? You could—I’m just being hypothetical here—like, you could have strengthened, but there was something in your own way of thinking of like, “But why? Like, why would I do this if I already have pain?” And so what I want to bring to light for people here is that it’s not wrong for people to get—to strengthen when they have pain. Like, that’s I think really important for people to get. And one of the reasons why that belief has had such at least 30 years of like, “Let’s keep get people stronger and just get them back to work,” because for some people it works! For some people, getting stronger, there is an inherent weakness that’s there, and that can work. For you, you’re like, “Why would I do that?” And so instead of running a truck through your thought and belief pattern about, “Why should I do this?”, you honored like, “Why should I do this?” And honored that of like, “I want to actually get this thing working better before I add load to it.” So I want listeners to hear like—I really want people to get—because sometimes when people hear me say things, they’re like, “Oh, you’re against this other paradigm.” I’m like, “No, I’m not against any paradigm! Like, if it works, do it! But if it doesn’t work, or if it really is misaligned with what you believe, then don’t.” And so this is a great example of like, it’s just so happened you aligned with typically how I—I don’t typically strengthen people who are in pain. I’m more interested in like, what are the compensation patterns that are correlated to this experience—I didn’t say the word “cause,” I said “correlated”—and now let’s sort that out so we can then add load to a better infrastructure. Yeah?
Arzina: Absolutely, yeah.
Susi: And so when you think about the client that you’ve had who has gotten better, and she’s reporting back to you now and saying, “My groin pain has been gone for X time, and X time,” and so she’s being able to communicate back to you this experience that’s very similar to yours, right? Like, you’ve noticed this increasing length of time of having no pain. She’s experiencing this correlating; you’re able to communicate it better. So when we can do that, that’s what starts to build our confidence that you can actually do it.
Arzina: The other thing that I think I missed sharing was that my understanding from having done your program and her understanding is she’s starting to say, “Oh, so now I really think my shoulder is connected to my hips! And my mid-back pain was connected to the fact that I was always having one shoulder down. And now that I fixed that, the groin pain is going away! So it’s all connected.” And I said, “Yes, it is connected!”
Susi: Nice.
Arzina: And yeah, that realization that how our major joints—the hips and the shoulders—how once they clear up, how once we refine the movements in those two joints, so many other things automatically clear up.
Susi: So I want to just take a pause here, because if you’re someone listening to this episode, I again want to emphasize that Arzina has been in the certification program since end of May, beginning of June. And we are now recording this at the end of August. So what’s that? 12 weeks? 10 weeks or something like that? Very short, short period of time. And the previous two episodes I recorded, one was with Austin, who’s now a grad, and Lindsay, who’s now a grad. And the conversation—I want you to get the distinction of the conversation and yet the articulation that Arzina has. Because this is—this is really it, is that I’m not teaching a bunch of academic information and then saying, “Okay, Arzina, when this is all done, now we’re going to get to work on your practicum.” Like, we’re now—like, she’s in it! And she’s learning this step-by-step-by-step, and as she applies it to herself—because we do an embodied way of learning—she’s able to also apply it with her clientele. Not that she’s teaching her experience to or with her clients, but she’s getting a lived experience of the concepts. She sees hope and possibility, so she’s able to actually articulate that. And because she’s able to communicate better back with me, she’s learning how to help her clients communicate better back to her, right? And so this is like—this is 12 weeks in, not even. I’m guessing; I need to actually look at the calendar, but basically, we’re one season—we’re just short of one season into this, and this is an example of what a trainee’s experience is, right? Where she’s just starting into client work, she’s applying the concepts with her clients and with herself. Because the reality is, we can’t ask anybody to do anything that we’re unwilling to do ourselves. So if you’re not actually practicing it, and you’re merely coming from academic or conceptual knowledge or theoretical knowledge, it’s just not going to work, right? Is there anything else you would like to share, Arzina, around your experience? And if someone’s listening, they’re thinking—like, what could they be thinking right now if they’re thinking about taking the intensive, where you were where you were like, “Eh…” What would you want to share with people about why they should, or even why they shouldn’t?
Arzina: I would recommend it to anyone who wants to learn more about their own body, understand pain in their own body, experiment with what you’re teaching. They don’t have to right away believe and trust in everything that you’re doing, but experiment with it and find out in their own body how it works, because it works! It really works. Yeah. I’ve also been listening to all your episodes since I joined, and there is one episode where you talk about how tissue changes and adapts in older people faster. So I think there’s so much hope, because we resign to X-ray reports and to what we’re being told by our doctors—not because they don’t mean well; they report to us within their scope of knowledge and experience. And I think what you’re offering is so, so invaluable. So I am so grateful that I found you and am taking the took the intensive and am taking the training. And I’m just as excited today as I was when I started, so that’s amazing. Yeah.
Susi: And it is so much fun to teach you. And I also want—and I want to highlight one of the reasons why it’s exciting. So this will be helpful, because what Arzina didn’t say—for those of you who should not take this—and I think the piece is, if you’re not interested in exploring, if you’re simply looking for academic information and you’re not wanting to take it in in your own self—if you’re a kinesthetic learner, this is a great program for you. If you’re merely a “lecture at me, I’m not going to ask any questions, and I don’t want to actually apply any of this stuff,” then I wouldn’t recommend it, right? That type of learning really needs to be at a desk in front of a chalkboard or in front of a… I’m dating myself, but this is a full body, full brain experience where you yourself experience a change, and that change is the fuel for the possibility of what is possible. Because what Irzina said is true. I’ve always worked, from the very start of my career, with people who are older than me. Even by a few years, like in my 40s, people were just a little bit older than me. But now, I mean, most of my clients are over 60. Many of them are over 70, and yet I forget that they are, because they’re getting more agile. They’re able to change and adapt quickly. They’re getting more nimble. They’re feeling more confident on ice. The whole idea of preventing falls is not really within their lexicon. They just wanna move quickly and be… Yeah, things can change. And the beauty is, more and more research is showing this to be true, is validating this. And we’ve just got the practice to really help you do this with your own clients. Arzina, are you wanting to have a client base consistently? Like, when we’re done, is that something you wanna have, like, a part-time business there?
Arzina: Yes. Absolutely. Absolutely, yes. Because I enjoy doing what I’m doing, what I’m learning from you, as well as so that I can have some income. And I think the underlying, most important thing for me is to be of service, to be able to get people out of pain. And I think another thing that we should mention is the fact that as much as this is an embodied practical experience, and immediately my mind goes to hands-on, it’s not hands-on.
Susi: Mm-hmm. Thank you.
Arzina: The screening is done via Zoom. The client that I’ve seen for six sessions, who has experienced so many gains, I have not met her in person.
Susi: Isn’t that amazing? I did not know that. Isn’t it amazing? No, I did not know. I thought she was an in-person client. This is even more fabulous.
Arzina: Nope. No. Yeah, because more and more people are doing this all via Zoom. So that’s—
Susi: Yeah. Yes. I did not know that.
Arzina: Oh, so good, Arzina. Yeah. Yeah. That’s cool. That’s amazing. That’s very cool. I feel it’s so accessible.
Susi: Yeah. Yes. In terms of learning and in terms of delivering what you’ve learned to people who can benefit from it, yeah. Yeah. Love it. Now, if you’re listening to this and you would like to work with Arzina, what I recommend you do is send me a note through functionalsynergy.com, because we do sometimes connect people who are curious about reducing and eliminating pain. We sometimes connect them with our trainees, where there is a mentorship between them and me and the client. So if what you’re listening to in Arzina has kind of lit you up and you’re like, “Ooh, you know what? I would like to work with her,” we have a way of facilitating that. Just send me a note through functionalsynergy.com. There’s a contact page there, and I’d be happy to have a chat with you about how that works and connecting you with Arezina if you would like.
Arzina: Thank you.
Susi: All right. Thank you, Arezina. And those of you who are interested, and you’re interested in starting the first step, the intensive, which we’re running in October, is where you begin. And you can read more over at functionalsynergy/intensive. See you next time.
